August Town Hall: The Secret to Better Relationships

The Secret to Better Relationships

Improving Communication and Creating Better Relationships

Featuring Dr. Sara Tariq and Francine Ronis, MA, MEd, LPC

Welcome and Introduction

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Hello. Good evening. Welcome, everybody!

Thank you all for joining us for the Northern Virginia Family Practice Town Hall. I am really excited about this August Town Hall, and I’ll tell you why in just a minute.

For those of you who may not know me, my name is Sara Tariq. I am one of the physicians at Northern Virginia Family Practice. As you know, we have an Arlington clinic, and I am relatively the newbie in the Washington, DC clinic with Dr. Maria Castillo.

I’m really excited to bring you this Town Hall. As we’ve been thinking about Town Hall topics, I’ve been really interested in relationships. We’ve talked a little bit about and alluded to the importance of connection and community in terms of our overall health.

I have found the perfect person to talk about this, so I’m really excited to introduce Francine Ronis.

Francine is an expert in her field. She has spent over 25 years as a licensed therapist in Virginia, DC, and Pennsylvania. What I think makes her different, and what her clients say really makes her stand out, is her ability to meet her clients exactly where they are.

Just like so many of us physicians at NVFP, it’s really important for her to create a safe environment for her clients and patients so that everybody feels seen and heard.

Francine brings her whole self to the therapy room, including consistent training and working on her own personal growth throughout her lifetime.

She currently sees individuals and families in Falls Church and via telehealth, and uses many of the latest evidence-based approaches in her therapy, including internal family systems, behavioral therapy, somatic work, and mindfulness, to help her clients achieve their goals.

When she and I talked, this topic came up. She brought it up, and I immediately grabbed it because I thought, “This is exactly what we need!”

She’s going to talk to us about the secret to better relationships, focusing on communication and how we can make all of our relationships better. I think it’s a topic every single one of us can learn from.

Welcome, Francine. We are so happy to have you.

Francine Ronis:

Thank you! I’m so happy to be here. I love talking about this stuff.

I’m not that much fun at parties, but I love talking about this stuff!

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Wonderful! Please get started.

We’re going to have Francine take us through some skills and share some of her expertise, and then we’ll have a really informal question-and-answer session.

As always, please feel free to put your questions in the chat. Once the PowerPoint is completed, I’ll make sure your questions are shared with her.

The Importance of Good Communication

Francine Ronis:

Today we’re going to talk about some good communication skills because good communication is really the backbone of every good relationship.

All too often, most of us find ourselves in some not-so-great conversations, especially when they get heated.

We’re often not taught good communication patterns as kids. We learn how to communicate from the people we’re surrounded by. Through no fault of anybody, we’re all products of what we know unless we choose to learn new things.

I chose to learn new skills because I didn’t have very good communication skills. It became really important to me as a mom, a partner, a friend, and obviously as a therapist.

I don’t get tripped up that much in the room with my clients. I get tripped up, like everybody else, in personal relationships.

We’re going to learn or relearn and practice some skills that you may have heard before, and we’ll see if we can move the needle a little bit.

First, though, I’m going to ask everybody to check in and see how they feel in this moment.

Check in with your body. Check in with your thoughts.

You might be stressed, bored, excited, anxious, happy, hungry, or tired. Your muscles may feel good, or they may ache. You may be tired of sitting.

Just notice and make a mental note of how you feel. Maybe even give it a number on a scale of one to ten, with one being not amazing and ten being awesome.

Then go ahead and shake that off. Literally shake it off.

Take a breath. Let’s leave the workday, the traffic, picking up the kids, making dinner, and everything it took to get here behind us for the next hour, or at least for the next few minutes.

Come back to this moment.

Everything here is an invitation. There’s nothing anybody has to do or should do. It’s an invitation to try something.

I’m going to invite you to take a deep belly breath.

Inhale through your nose and let the breath sink down into your body, all the way into your belly. Our bellies are actually supposed to expand when we breathe.

Let your belly expand, then push the air back out. Take a few deep breaths like that, slowing everything down.

If you’re comfortable closing your eyes or having a downward gaze, take a few more deep breaths.

Notice the air filling your lungs, your belly, and your head, and slowly breathe out through your nose or mouth. It doesn’t matter.

Now I’m going to invite you to feel your body.

Feel what it’s like to be sitting on whatever you’re sitting on. Notice how you’re supported by the chair, the couch, or the earth.

Notice your legs and feet, your torso, and your belly.

Notice your chest as you breathe, your throat, your back, and your neck.

Notice your head on your shoulders. Notice your shoulders, arms, and hands.

Take one more really deep breath and hold it for just a moment.

See if you can let your exhale be a little bit longer than your inhale.

When you’re ready, slowly open your eyes and see if you can remain present to yourself as you come back to the room.

Take another minute to notice how you feel and whether anything feels different. Maybe your number has changed, or some part of you feels more present or relaxed.

The reason I wanted to do that is because good communication requires presence.

We don’t live in a very present world. We’re often not very present in conversations, especially when they become difficult, because we have so much going on in our heads that gets in the way of experiencing connection.

I love inviting people back to their bodies and to presence because the more we practice it, the easier it becomes.

We develop muscle memory, just like we do when riding a bike or playing tennis.

We can develop muscle memory for becoming present and breathing.

When things get tense, we can eventually find ourselves automatically taking a breath.

Every relationship we have relies on good communication skills, and we’re going to practice some of them together.

Understanding Emotional Reactions

Francine Ronis:

It starts in the body. Our bodies can feel very different depending on what we’re engaged in.

If we’re worrying, thinking about something else, or distracted during a conversation, we’re not going to be very present.

Often, especially in close relationships, we find ourselves feeling triggered or taken out of the moment of connection.

We can go into fight, flight, freeze, or fawn responses.

When we’re activated, our emotional and stress responses can take over, making rational thinking and productive communication more difficult.

Think about a two-year-old having a temper tantrum. Reasoning with them or telling them why you’re right and they’re wrong generally isn’t going to work.

Helping them regulate is much more effective.

That’s why regulation is so important. Good communication starts with regulating our nervous system.

One of the first goals of effective communication is to regulate first, then communicate.

The Power of the Pause

The reason breathing works is that it does so many things at the same time.

One conscious breath can shift your state. It brings your focus from your mind back to your body.

Breathing can help regulate stress, slow your heart rate, and create a sense of calm.

What I love to talk about is how the breath creates space between reaction and response.

When we’re reactive, something happens and we immediately react. But when someone says something and we take a breath, we slow everything down.

We can reconnect with our intentions and make a choice.

I love the question, “Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?”

Sometimes, when we’re focused on being right, we forget about everything else.

Taking a breath gives us a moment to ask ourselves how we want to respond rather than simply reacting.

It doesn’t mean we’ll always respond gracefully. We may still choose to respond angrily, but it’s different when we do it consciously.

Breath. Pause. Choice. Response.

In the pause is the choice.

Active Listening

Active listening is something everybody has heard of, but it can be really difficult to practice.

We live in such a fast-paced world, with so much coming at us, that our minds are often focused on problem-solving or fixing things.

Active listening means listening to understand.

It’s listening to understand what the person is saying and what’s underneath what they’re saying.

For example, imagine your ten-year-old says, “I hate you.”

Our immediate response might be, “You can’t say that,” or “We don’t use that word.”

But the underlying message is that the child is angry.

Instead of becoming triggered or feeling disrespected, we could say, “You’re really angry because I won’t let you have ice cream before dinner. I get it.”

We can use this approach in all our relationships.

When people are upset or agitated, they don’t always communicate skillfully.

If we’re listening for connection, we can try to hear what’s actually being said.

Another important skill is reflecting back what we’ve heard.

For example, “What I’m hearing is that when I’m late, you feel really disrespected. Did I get that right?”

Or, “It sounds like you were expecting me at five, and when I didn’t show up until six, you felt anxious and angry. Is that right?”

This gives the other person an opportunity to clarify what they’re feeling.

We want to listen for meaning rather than thinking about what we’re going to say next.

Nobody is going to do this perfectly all the time. We’re not aiming for perfection. We’re aiming to practice and improve.

Using “I” Statements

Another communication tool most of us have heard about is using “I” statements.

Very often, we communicate through accusations.

For example, “You were late.”

When somebody says something that feels accusatory, we naturally become defensive.

Instead, we can communicate how something made us feel.

“When you showed up late, I felt rejected. I felt unimportant. I felt like you didn’t care.”

Or, “I feel scared when your voice gets loud.”

Or, “I need a minute to process.”

These statements create opportunities for the other person to hear us without immediately becoming defensive.

But we have to be careful because sometimes “I” statements are actually accusations in disguise.

For example, “I feel like you don’t care about me.”

That’s not really a feeling. It’s an accusation.

We want to communicate our actual feelings and thoughts in ways that create connection rather than conflict.

Separating Facts From Stories

We have to remember that we’re all filtering reality through our own perspectives, judgments, and experiences.

Even with our partners, children, or parents, we may have very different interpretations of the same situation.

That’s why it’s important to separate facts from the stories we create about them.

For example, instead of saying, “You don’t care about me because you’re late,” we might say:

“When you’re late, I make up a story that I’m not very important to you.”

That changes the conversation.

We’re acknowledging that we have a perspective and an emotional response, but we’re also recognizing that our interpretation might not be accurate.

The other person might explain that there was traffic or that they struggle with being on time.

Now we can have a conversation because we’re not starting from a place of blame.

We’re taking ownership of our feelings and remaining curious about the other person’s experience.

The important thing is remembering that the story we’ve created may or may not be based on facts.

Practicing Better Communication

These are four tools I really want to invite people to practice.

There are so many opportunities throughout the day to practice breathing, listening, and communicating differently.

Try pausing and taking a breath before you pick up your phone in the morning or before you pull out of your driveway.

The more we practice during situations that aren’t stressful, the easier it becomes to use these skills when we really need them.

I’ve noticed a significant shift in my relationship with my daughter since learning to breathe and calm my nervous system.

It creates space where she doesn’t have to feel defensive all the time.

Practice active listening with everyone. Practice it at the grocery store, at work, and with your kids.

Maybe pick one or two skills to focus on.

I would practice breathing all the time and then add another skill or two.

We’re all works in progress.

Intention Over Perfection

Our intention is to create connection with others and ourselves and to have healthier relationships.

It’s not about being perfect.

It’s not about beating yourself up when you don’t get it right.

It’s also not about making the other person change.

It’s about having the intention to love more and be more present in your life.

Compassion and kindness toward yourself make this much easier.

It shouldn’t become another thing you have to do or another reason to criticize yourself.

Just remember that communication can be hard, and approach the process with kindness and compassion.

Managing Emotional Reactions in Difficult Conversations

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Thank you so much, Francine. This is so informative.

I’m going to stop sharing the slides, and as we’re all reflecting on the wisdom and skills we’ve learned this evening, I’m going to invite everybody to share any questions they have in the chat.

I’m going to start with a couple of questions while we’re waiting for our group to add theirs.

One thing I reflect on a lot, and this is just about me, is the concept of an amygdala hijack.

When I’m in a stressful situation or an argument with someone I care about, my emotional response can be so strong.

I know in my head that I need to pause, but I’m not sure how to put the brakes on my emotional dysregulation in the moment.

Someone says something to me, or I’m in the middle of a discussion that gets heated, and I don’t know how to step back, pause, and take that breath.

Maybe the challenge is that I haven’t developed the muscle memory yet. What would you recommend?

Francine Ronis:

Yes, I think that’s true. We have to create that muscle memory.

There are tricks we can all use, but you have to know what works for you.

For me, I’ve practiced yoga and taken meditation classes. I joke that I pretend to meditate, but I’ve taken enough classes that I know how!

Especially in my relationship with my daughter, I found myself becoming so reactive, whether I was angry, scared, or experiencing all the things that moms feel.

I could see that it was harming our relationship, so learning to regulate my emotions became a necessity.

One thing you can try is tapping the soft spot just below your clavicle. That can serve as a reminder to breathe. It’s also a meridian point used in practices intended to calm the nervous system.

Some people find it helpful to shake their bodies and move some of that energy.

Humming and singing are other techniques. Humming activates the vagus nerve, and even humming throughout your day or playing a kazoo can help you practice calming yourself.

Some people respond better to visual reminders.

Dr. Dan Siegel talks about “flipping your lid” when your emotions take over. He uses a hand model of the brain to demonstrate what happens.

Sometimes having that visual reminder is helpful.

You might tap yourself and think, “Wait, I love this person. What am I doing?”

Anything that reminds you of your intention can help.

I also love practicing breathwork. Finding breathing exercises that work for you is really important.

Have you heard of box breathing?

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Please share!

Francine Ronis:

Box breathing is very simple to remember.

Imagine a box with four sides.

You breathe in for four counts, hold for four counts, breathe out for four counts, and hold again for four counts.

You can practice this for two minutes a day or even two minutes three times a day.

You’re developing the muscle memory of breathing.

There are many different breathing practices. A lot of people like box breathing because it’s easy to remember.

I personally like alternate nostril breathing, which is commonly practiced in yoga.

Again, it’s about teaching your nervous system the muscle memory of calming down.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

I love how you describe this in such a scientific way.

Sometimes people hear about these practices and wonder whether there’s actually science behind them.

And there really is research supporting many of these approaches.

I particularly like box breathing because I can visualize it in my head.

Francine Ronis:

And you can use different numbers.

If four counts feels too long, you can use three. Some people use six.

The important thing is finding something that works for you.

Parenting, Control, and Connection

Dr. Sara Tariq:

You brought up your relationship with your daughter, and I’d love to ask you about parenting.

I think parenting is such a beautiful and difficult learning process.

For me, and I think for many parents, it’s really important to maintain healthy relationships with our children as they grow into adulthood.

I want to have a very healthy relationship with my college-aged kids.

I think I do a good job of letting go of control so that I can focus more on connection.

I recognize that the more I try to control my kids, the more I might push them away and hurt that connection.

Except when it comes to grades!

I get into this mindset of thinking, “You don’t know this yet, but you really need to have good grades.”

Academics are really important to me, and that’s my sticking point with my son.

I often realize after a conversation that I’ve exerted too much control.

What recommendations do you have for me or other moms who are trying to work on this issue?

Francine Ronis:

That’s a tough one.

What you have in your mind and heart is his future.

You have the best intentions, but when it’s coming from Mom, there’s often going to be some pushback or a power struggle.

I don’t have a magic answer for that.

Every family has to decide what they’re going to push on, what they’re going to let go of, and how much something might be damaging the relationship.

What’s it worth?

It’s a much bigger conversation.

I would encourage you to approach the situation with curiosity.

What’s going on for him?

What’s getting in the way of academics or getting good grades being important to him?

There may be something making school difficult.

Maybe he prefers spending time with friends, or maybe he struggles with procrastination.

The goal is to become curious rather than immediately trying to control the outcome.

Especially as our children become adults, we need to partner with them.

They have so much autonomy and power over their own lives.

When we approach them as partners and become genuinely curious, it helps them want to communicate with us.

It also shifts our own perspective.

Suddenly, you’re not responsible for controlling everything.

You’re partnering with your child rather than feeling like you have to make him figure everything out.

That can calm the entire interaction.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

That’s very good advice. That’s helpful.

Creating Emotional Safety in Relationships

Dr. Sara Tariq:

We have a question about emotional safety.

There’s a lot of discussion about how important emotional safety is in relationships.

How do we actually create emotional safety for each other in real time?

Are there specific phrases or things we can do to help create that sense of safety?

Francine Ronis:

Absolutely.

It’s going to vary depending on the relationship and the people involved.

What creates emotional safety in an intimate relationship might be very different from what creates emotional safety at work or with your children.

One of the biggest ways to create emotional safety is to become a good listener.

Be curious.

Check in with yourself and make sure you’re actually showing up and being present.

If you’re not available emotionally, communicate that.

You might say, “I really want to hear you, but I’m noticing that I’m thinking about something else right now. Can we talk a little bit later?”

When you’re not available, state that clearly and make time to reconnect.

Another important part of emotional safety is not losing our cool.

It can be very scary when someone loses their temper.

As parents, we don’t always realize how frightening that can be for our children because they rely on us for so much.

Being able to stay present and manage our reactions is important.

That doesn’t mean we never raise our voices or speak harshly. It means recognizing how our behavior impacts others.

Another incredibly important way to create emotional safety is through repair.

Every relationship has conflict.

It’s unavoidable. We’re human.

Knowing how to repair after conflict is essential.

You might come back and say, “I’m really sorry. That didn’t go the way I planned. Can we try again?”

Being available to repair is one of the biggest predictors of a healthy marriage.

The more we can take responsibility for our actions and come back to the conversation with a genuine attempt to repair things, the healthier our relationships can become.

And a genuine apology isn’t, “I’m sorry you feel that way.”

That’s not taking responsibility.

It’s also important to create space for other people to repair things when they’ve made mistakes.

We don’t want to hold everything against them or bring up every past grievance when they’re trying to reconnect.

All of this requires presence, and we’re not really taught how to be present in our culture.

It’s a big ask, but it’s incredibly worthwhile.

Vulnerability and Wholehearted Communication

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Absolutely. It’s so worth it.

As I’m thinking about this, I can imagine how the stressors of the world today affect our relationships.

We’re so connected to everything happening around us through social media and all the information coming at us.

Sometimes it takes me a while to peel back those layers of stress and say, “Okay, I’m going to stop worrying about the world for a moment and focus on the relationships that are important to me.”

And then I have to be vulnerable.

That brings me to another concept I’m really interested in: wholehearted communication.

When I think about wholehearted communication, I think about approaching relationships with openheartedness rather than defensiveness.

What does wholehearted communication mean to you?

Francine Ronis:

My active-listening instincts want to ask, “What does it mean to you?”

I’d really love to hear your perspective.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

For me, wholehearted communication means shedding the stressors and getting rid of defensiveness.

It means approaching my relationships, whether with my parents, my spouse, or my kids, with curiosity.

When I’m communicating wholeheartedly, I notice that I’m quieter.

There’s a sense of quietness within me.

That’s not always easy to achieve because there are so many things going on in my head.

Francine Ronis:

I love that.

You’re describing curiosity and presence and really trying to be there.

I would add compassion.

Compassion is another thing we’re not necessarily taught.

The truth is that every single one of us deserves compassion.

Even when someone has done something we disagree with or has very different political views, they still deserve compassion and care.

That doesn’t mean we have to have dinner with them.

It doesn’t mean we can’t have boundaries.

But we can still extend compassion and care to our relationships and conversations.

To me, that’s wholehearted communication.

Another important part of compassion is remembering that we have no idea what another person has experienced.

We don’t know what they’ve been through in the last minute or throughout their entire life.

When we assume we know and react because we’re offended, we’re bringing our ego into the conversation rather than our heart.

I don’t get this right all the time.

But the more I practice, the better I become.

Something I’ve come to understand is that we really can’t extend compassion to others unless we have compassion for ourselves.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

That’s a hard one for a lot of people.

If someone listening to this conversation realizes they don’t have much compassion for themselves, what is the path toward developing it?

Developing Self-Compassion

Francine Ronis:

That’s a great question.

There are several different paths.

Buddhist meditation can be helpful, although it’s not for everybody. You don’t have to fully embrace the practice to benefit from some of its teachings.

Internal Family Systems work can also be helpful.

You don’t necessarily have to go to therapy to begin exploring some of these ideas.

Internal Family Systems is based on understanding that we’re made up of many different parts.

For example, imagine I get a speeding ticket.

I might become really angry with myself.

I might think, “I shouldn’t have done that. I should have known better.”

That’s my inner critic coming in and making me feel terrible about myself.

The critic is almost always trying to help us improve.

It believes that if it criticizes us enough, we’ll do better and won’t make the same mistake again.

But compassion allows us to look at the situation differently.

Maybe the part of me that was speeding was worried about getting somewhere on time.

Maybe I was distracted.

Maybe there were several things happening at once.

I can have compassion for myself without spending the next five days being angry.

Instead of punishing myself, I can become curious.

How did that happen?

Why did it happen?

What can I do differently next time?

Maybe I can get up ten minutes earlier.

Maybe I can pack my lunch the night before.

Maybe I can avoid checking my phone or email until I arrive at the office.

That’s where real change can happen.

It’s about approaching ourselves with softness and curiosity rather than punishment.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

I understand the compassion part.

What I’m missing is how that connects to Internal Family Systems.

Francine Ronis:

It’s part of the larger concept.

Internal Family Systems is based on the idea that we’re not just one thing at any given moment.

We’re a multitude of parts.

There’s a part of us that we might call energy, love, or soul.

It’s associated with qualities like curiosity, compassion, and kindness.

But as humans, we also develop different parts of ourselves to help us navigate the world.

For example, you might say to someone, “I’m so mad at you!”

But there’s probably more going on than just anger.

A part of you might be angry.

Another part might be scared.

Another part might be disappointed.

Another part might simply be hungry.

There are all these different parts.

When we begin to understand them and why they behave the way they do, we can become more intentional about which parts are driving the bus.

We might have a manager part that’s really good at organizing things but sometimes overfunctions.

We might have a critic that’s constantly trying to push us to do better.

It’s simple in concept but not always easy in practice because all these parts are competing for attention.

The critic tends to be one of our strongest drivers.

And that doesn’t necessarily help our physical health, mental health, emotional health, or relationships.

Often, the more critical we are of ourselves, the more critical we become of others.

All of these parts believe they’re working for our benefit.

But many of them developed when we were very young.

Sometimes they need to learn that we’re adults now and that other, more mature parts of ourselves can take the lead.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Got it. Thank you. That’s very helpful.

Taking Responsibility for Our Emotions

Dr. Sara Tariq:

We have time for one more question.

People talk about taking responsibility for our emotions.

What does that mean in everyday life?

I think most people understand taking responsibility after the fact.

We apologize and say, “I messed up. I lost my temper. I shouldn’t have done that.”

But is there a way to take responsibility for our emotions before we react?

Francine Ronis:

I think it starts with understanding our emotions.

I’m going to come back to the toddler example.

Most of us who have children know that when they’re tired, hungry, overstimulated, or understimulated, things can get out of control.

Well, we can learn the same things about ourselves.

If I’m hungry, tired, thirsty, overstimulated, or understimulated, I may be more reactive.

My emotions might take over more easily.

We can also learn to recognize why certain situations trigger us.

When I talk to parents, I often explain that when we become emotionally activated by something our children do, we’re frequently thinking about the future or the past rather than the present.

For example, if you’re upset with your son about his grades, you may be thinking about his future.

You’re worried about him.

But in the present moment, he’s okay.

Other times, parents become triggered because they feel disrespected.

That feeling may connect to something in the past when they experienced disrespect.

Let’s return to the example of a child saying, “I hate you.”

What the child may really mean is, “I’m angry.”

If you can avoid becoming triggered yourself, you can help the child communicate that feeling more effectively.

Taking responsibility means understanding what you’re thinking and why you’re having a particular emotional reaction.

That awareness gives you the opportunity to respond rather than react.

You can always return to the conversation later when everyone is calmer.

You might say, “When we say ‘I hate you,’ this is what happens, and this is why we try not to say it. Here’s what you might have been trying to communicate.”

You can still have those conversations, but from a calmer place.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

That’s what you mean about the power being in the pause, right?

Francine Ronis:

Exactly.

People often talk about emotional intelligence, or EQ, as being more predictive of success than IQ.

The important thing is to know yourself.

Learn what happens in your body when you become emotionally activated.

Maybe you feel tightness in your stomach.

Maybe your throat feels tight because there’s something you want to say.

There’s so much information in our bodies.

A lot of the work I do with clients involves helping them reconnect with their bodies because that’s another skill we’re not taught very much.

Closing Remarks

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Absolutely.

As we close, I think one of the biggest secrets to better relationships that you’re sharing with us is the importance of being in touch with ourselves and truly knowing ourselves.

I’ve had such an amazing time learning from you.

I think I’ve always understood the importance of breathing, but now I understand that it’s something I need to practice daily.

The concept of muscle memory really makes sense to me.

It’s never been presented to me quite this way before.

I appreciate how you’ve explained these important concepts in such a beautiful, simple way.

I think our audience feels the same.

Thank you so much for your time, your expertise, and your compassion in teaching us something so important that we can all begin using in our lives.

Francine Ronis:

Thank you!

I love talking about this, and I could talk about it forever.

I appreciate the opportunity.

I also want to mention that there are so many tools available to help people practice breathing and presence.

There are many free resources, including YouTube, Insight Timer, and apps like Calm.

The resources are out there. You just have to look for them.

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Thank you so much, Francine Ronis, everyone!

We would love to have you back again sometime soon.

Francine Ronis:

Absolutely. Thank you!

Dr. Sara Tariq:

Thank you. Take care. Good night, everybody. Y’all be safe.